A selection of actual answers from our last batch of applicants to a simple question: Can you move out of the fire?

Vitare has been doing quite a bit of recruiting this last week. Unfortunately Icecrown Citadel came out at the worst possible time for us and we’ve gone in with a less than optimal raid team. Thus… we are recruiting.

I feel like I have read a million applications over the last few days and I’m disappointed to find that most of the applicants keep making the same mistakes. There is a good chance that some of these players are actually quite good but based on how they’ve submitted their application … they get declined anyway.

This post is going address the things I look for when going over an application in the hope that this information can help some great players find quality guilds to join. My own experience has been applying and reviewing applications for raiding guilds who almost always require applicants to submit a written application.

1. Stick to the Application Format

This might seem silly but I cannot stress to you the importance of following the Application Template. Nearly all guilds will have some kind of detailed form or a copy and paste blank template for you to use. Use it!

Then make sure your responses (the answers, not the questions) stand out. It will take you an extra 5 minutes but please:

• Take the time to bold the headings or put your responses in italics so that officers can easily get to your answers.
• Make sure you include lots of spaces so the responses jump out on the page.

2. Plain English, Please

Don’t shorten words or use lingo. It just makes you look immature and takes people more time to process what they’re reading. Some lingo can be off putting to a reader when they aren’t familiar with a term used. And you’re trying to fit in, not distance yourself.

Run your responses through a spell checker and review what you’ve written to make sure it all makes sense.

Summary: Keep it organised, neat and free of spelling mistakes

3. Do Your Research

Most guilds have open (public) recruitment. The most valuable research you can do is snooping through the other applications post on the guild’s website. See who got flamed and what was given a thumbs up. When writing your responses keep this newly acquired information in the back of your mind.

Double check that your enchanting, gemming and talent choices are the most appropriate for you in Patch 3.3 (or whatever is the latest Patch). You can deviate from the “cookie cutter” choices but be prepared to defend those decisions with authoritative data from Elitist Jerks or the like, Blizzard “Blue” posts or anecdotal evidence (eg. “I chose X talent because threat is an issue for me in my current 10 man group”).

Summary: Read previous applications and make sure you’re up-to-date on your own class

4. Be Yourself

Don’t be afraid to inject some personality into what you’re writing. If it helps, pretend that you are writing an email to a friend.

A bit of personality might make your future guild members like you. And even if they like you just a little, they’ll be much kinder when they respond with constructive criticism. It also gives the Officers (who decide if you’re in or not) a good idea whether you are going to fit in with the other raiders.

Always give full sentences to the questions even if you think it can be answered with a simple yes or no. Always explain why you responded yes or why the answer was no. The simple “yes” responses to the Can You Move Out of Fire? question are the least interesting or memorable.

Summary: Talk! Don’t stick to ‘yes’ or ‘no’ responses.

5. Appropriate Gear

Most raiding guilds know that skill is more important than gear in the long run. But raiding guilds also need players who are ready for their progression content from the get go. As a general rule of thumb you don’t want to be more than 1 tier behind the rest of the guild you’re applying to. If the guild is wearing Tier 10 and is a 10 man raiding guild (ilvl251) you need to be in the Tier 9 10 man gear and equivalent ilvl232 gear.

Gear can also demonstrate skill in some cases. For example, in Vitare we tackle hard mode content, so if we see an applicant wearing TOGC 25 items it shows us that the applicant has completed hard modes before. It won’t necessarily give the best gear score but it shows us that another guild was willing to take you into successful hard mode fights.

Summary: 1 Tier below the current guild members is acceptable to most guilds

6. Enhancements, Gems and Talents

If you are joining a raiding guild, even a casual one, there will be an expectation that you will look after and cherish your gear. You will be expected to have the best available enchants and gems for each of your pieces when you apply, too. I can’t stress how important this is.

Make sure you have a consistent gemming system. I know nothing about Death Knights but if an application came in and a Death Knight had used 5 or 6 different types of gems I would assume they don’t really know what stat is of utmost importance to them and which socket bonuses can be missed.

Shoulder and Head Augments are a must have. This means grinding rep with both Sons of Hodir and whichever faction has the head enchant most appropriate to your class and spec.

If you haven’t maxed out SoH (especially now that you can buy Relics of Ulduar for next to nothing) and one other faction (which you can champion by completing instances wearing a tabard) because you don’t want to spend your game time “grinding” then be prepared to be declined. You’ll be labeled “lazy”.

Never submit an application before getting your gemming and enchanting perfect on the proviso “if I’m accepted, I will re-gem and buy the most expensive enchants”. This type of response is an instant decline as far as I’m concerned. Players that skimp on quality enhancements during the one period in which they are being scrutinized (during application) will be more likely to skimp on enhancements when they are a guild member under no scrutiny.

Summary: Don’t apply until you have the best enchants, gems and augments on your gear

7. Raiding Experience

How much raid experience you have with your character is important. But you need to make sure that you’re honest when outlining what you’ve completed – and on which character if not the character you’re applying with.

So many applicants imply that they have cleared all Vanilla, BC and Wrath content however from looking at their Armory profile it’s pretty clear that they only did it the once and certainly not at the intended level for the raid instance for it to count as a challenge overcome.

If you have very little raid experience be upfront about it! Alternatively, if you have taken a significant break from raiding (for example: missing at least one patch entirely), be honest about what raiding content you missed. It can also explain if you have somewhat outdated gear.

Summary: Be honest and upfront about what you’ve tackled on that character

8. Reputations

I always check to make sure an applicant’s Sons of Hodir reputation is at Exalted so while I’m there I like to have a snoop to see what other reputations have been farmed or maxed out. While reputation grinding is by no means a deal breaker to an application, someone who has 20 or more reputations at exalted are goal-oriented and patient. I’ll definitely label you a perfectionist if you not only hit exalted, but also went and got the extra 1000 rep so that your bar is fully maxed out too!

Reputations also let me match up and verify an applicant’s previous raid experience. If someone says they have full cleared Karazhan to Black Temple however their Violet Eye reputation is at Neutral and the Ashtongue Deathsworn isn’t listed on their reputation panel – that sends up a big red flag.

Summary: Make sure your reputations back up your listed raid experience!

9. Previous guilds

We want to recruit players who are going to stick around for the long haul, not someone who switches guilds every 3 – 6 months. If you haven’t had much luck finding a home be upfront about what problems you’ve encountered in your previous guilds that have caused you to leave. Be diplomatic. Don’t ever bag your old guilds – it just makes you look volatile and immature.

Go to www.wowprogress.com and have a look at your guild rotation. Does it look bad because of the numerous entries in there? I can guarantee there will be question marks over whether or not you’re a trouble maker or a bad player not making it through your trial phase with other guilds.

Summary: Quality guilds want loyal, long term players

10. Expect Criticism

If your submitted application is published openly for all existing guild members to comment on, be prepared feedback – both good and bad. Only the existing guild members know who’s opinion matters most (ie, which members in the guild will be voting to accept or deny you) so respond to all additional questions and suggestions that come in to your application equally.

Check back every day or so until your application has been officially accepted, denied or placed on hold. You might not receive an decision for up to 1 week.

Always respond to questions about your gemming, talent or gear choices. Sometimes the player asking the question might not understand your class as well as they think, so you might need to politely explain why the decisions you’ve made are the best for your character. The most impressive applications are those made by players who can justify their choices based on a solid knowledge of the game. It’s also okay to acknowledge when you have been proved wrong.

Final Advice

The final piece of advice I can give is to spend a good 20 – 30 minutes writing and reviewing your application. For me to fully review 1 application I have to spend at least 15 minutes going through everything. Frankly, why should I waste my time reviewing you if you can’t take the time to show yourself off in the best possible light?

Don’t be disheartened if you are declined. No matter how good your application is some guilds just won’t have the room to take on another player of your class and/or spec, or there might be someone who put one in that was just that little bit better. All you can do is take in any feedback that was given and reapply at a later date, or try again with another guild that needs someone just like you.

Good luck!

Do you ever wonder what might have been?

Vok, who plays on the same realm as us, ranted about Priests in his Healing Q&A. Obviously he’s played with some terrible Priests this expansion, none of which, it seems, can remember to click Fortitude. Or perhaps none that can afford candles.

But Vok doesn’t realise how close he came to raiding with me.

When Lathere and I needed a new guild at the start of Wrath we came as a linked pair. A buy one, get one free type deal (I think Lath was the one they were buying and I was the freebie). We joined a raiding guild called Defiance – a step up for us, or so we thought. Some of our other friends followed us and we were happy to have them with us.

But I wasn’t happy in Defiance from day 1. I argued endlessly for reform. Their DKP rules were grossly unfair to newcomers and favoured officers and long term players (even ones who I’d never even raided with). And the prospect of winning cloth armor seemed hopeless. There were no rules to protect us from leather/mail/plate wearers and the raid was lousy with Warlocks, Mages and Priests. I won more gear from PuGs than I did from guild runs.

The night we first stepped foot in Ulduar I gquit. I’ll admit, it was a spur of the moment type thing. Yes, it was that bad. And Ulduar wasn’t as forgiving as Naxxramas. Lathere and 2 raiding friends of ours quit too.

We had no other guilds lined up. We were un-guilded. And we were a four package deal: me, Lathere, a Resto Shaman and a DK. And the guild that we just left? Hated my guts.

Remember how I said quitting was spur of the moment decision? Well the next day Lathere called me and gave me the older sister sensible speech which boils down to “how could you be so reckless? look at what you’ve done!”. While I had been ranting about unfair DKP rules and awarding loot to players who consistently disconnect for entire encounters, Lathere had been planning a more sensible exit strategy.

We both try to keep in touch with the nice people that we’ve raided with over years no matter where they go and it’s fair to say that there’s someone in most of the serious 25 man raiding guilds on Barthilas that we have some history with. Perhaps you could even go far enough to say “we have friends in high places”. Nah, that is going too far.

But Lath and I got talking and we soon realised there was really only a couple of guilds that we wanted to be part of.

One of those guilds had stolen two of my favourite people from me: a Hunter by the name of Stardown (back in the days of BC) and a Shaman by the name of Rumbrb (at the very start of Wrath). Stardown was Obsolete’s Hunter class lead and an officer. And he definitely deserved the position. If I wanted to wind down after a raid I would just ask Stardown a Huntery question, or use the words “Attack Power” in his presence, and the steady stream of numbers would put me right to sleep.

The other guild had coughed up an (alt) Protection Warrior who tanked with us in the Burning Crusade. He had managed to steal my best friend away from me in-game. For at least six months all I ever heard was “Caco and I are doing x instance” and “sorry Caco just invited me to do something”. Tanks and their healers. What can you do? Anyway I figured if Maria liked him, he must be alright. Caco returned his alt to his raiding guild, Vitare, in Wrath and became an officer.

And do you know, while I’m writing this, I just realised they have the exact same first name in real life? I’ll give you a hint… it starts with the letter m.

There were actually two other potential guilds that we considered less seriously:

One guild had pinched another one of my favourite people, a Mage. I still remember the first conversation I had with Majesty on-flight to Tempest Keep. And it still makes me smile. Unfortunately the guild he joined in Wrath, Exiztence, also contained the most annoying player (and a Priest! for shame!) on the server. Plus they seemed like tight-asses. So they were out.

The last guild we considered, Annexation, had grabbed up quite a few (at least five, I think) of our players at the start of Wrath just at the time when we were desperately trying to get consistent numbers for 25 man raids. I’ve always thought of them as poaching our players. So they were out, too.

So I logged in the day after we /gquit and Caco, from Vitare, whispered me within minutes:

“So I heard you left Defiance…”

Stardown, from Obsolete, didn’t log in until an hour later. He offered us a place in their next guild raid and a standing invitation to join Obsolete. But by then I was already somewhat committed to our (at the time not yet written) Vitare application. I politely refused his offer to raid with them because I didn’t want to be saved in case Vitare wanted to bring me to a trial raid that same week.

So we joined Vitare. And we’re still there.

Annexxation disbanded. All our friends/guild members who left us for Annexation are now in another guild altogether. They’re doing quite well.

Exiztence very nearly disbanded. Or disbanded and reformed. It’s hard to tell. A chunk of their raiding team left to start their own, extremely successful, guild. Several of their members, including my friend Maj, changed factions and joined a successful Horde guild on Barthilas. I’m still a bit sad that I can’t chat with him anymore.

Obsolete have had a rocky time of it, too. They had their GM step down. At one point it looked as though they were going to stop running 25 mans altogether. And it seemed as though they were forever recruiting a decent Priest (which explains Vok’s hatred towards Priests). My friend Stardown stopped playing WoW while we were all still in our Trial period with Vitare. My friend Rumbrb no longer raids 25 mans and raids 10 mans instead with some of the original Obsolete raiders.

And Vitare? Doing better than I had ever hoped.

But I can’t help but think how different it could have turned out. If Caco hadn’t been online when I logged in that day and it had been Stardown who asked first? We would have joined Obsolete, I’m sure of it.

Do you have your own World of Warcraft sliding doors moment? One decision, or a twist of fate that lead you in a completely new direction?

If my druid's eyes could glow red, they would be red right now

Most of the time it doesn’t really cross my mind that I’m a girl gamer. I’m just another person in my guild and in my raid. I think about our progression and I worry about standing in the fire just like any other raider. No different than anyone else, right?

I got to work this morning and (procrastinating doing actual work) went and checked out our guild website. In the last 24 hours there have been some fairly active application threads and I wanted to see how some of them were panning out.  I was thoroughly disgusted when I read some sexist comments on a new, public, applicant thread made by one of our newer raiders who only just got through his trial period. This comment makes me so mad I’m going to copy paste the text right over into this post… because frankly it speaks for itself.

ex Gravity player, not sure how far he got to… but from what i remember, the officers were not 100% satisfied. Not sure which one of you was playing, but dont think u played a vital role as a warlock in the guild. When eliria and patross.. u fall behind miles away. although patorss is very exp and geared lock.. eliria is a chick…and does better than you  O.O beside the point…. i would always see you in the top 10 or top 15. so yea. dont think you can match vitare locks to be honest… but yea
 laterz

Oh my god I wish this guy would go die in a fire or something.

Does this represent the mindset of the other raiders in Vitare? I don’t think so! If I had gotten a response like that when I applied I probably would have withdrawn my application. As we are sorely in need of good ranged DPS at the moment, can we really afford to convey the wrong message on the current application threads? Absolutely not.

Forum Applications – What to Do and What NOT to Do

I am absolutely in support of open forum applications. Officers generally only play 1 or 2 classes each, so it just makes sense to have applications out in the open for other guild members with more knowledge of the applicant’s class to review, comment and ask questions.

What to do

• Check out their raiding achievements
• Check out their gear/gems/enchants
• Check out their reputation – do they have Sons of Hodir rep?
• Do they have 2 professions @ 450?
• Do they appear to understand their class and spec?
• Have they put thought into their online app?
• Can they spell/write in proper sentences/refrain from leet speak?
• Check out other similarly progressed guilds recruitment forums to see where else they are applying
• Check out what other guilds they have been in and length of time – no one wants a guild hopper

What NOT to do

• Don’t make unsubstantiated comments that they are a shit player
• Don’t tell them they play worse than a girl
• Don’t whisper their old GM and then make that conversation public
• Don’t pick apart a players gear/gem choices if you know fuck all about that class
• Don’t start a completely off topic argument with fellow guildies

Ok, I’ll admit I absolutely failed that last one.

Firing back at him in a rage over a public forum is perhaps not very classy. But in my defence this guy has been an idiot on mulitple occassions now and I wanted to make it clear that we were not all anti-girl-gamers.

This is what I wrote back in reply. I wish I had started a new, private, thread, but hindsight is 20/20:

seriously you manage to (continuously) push all my buttons wrong…. wtf does it matter if a chick is playing? You know that the majority of our healing team is female yeah? Are you just asking to die over and over again?

I hope karma gives you female managers your entire life and your future wife keeps you on a ball and chain.

FFS it makes me want to disable my microphone forever and just pretend to be a guy – what a sad world we live in.

Later on in the afternoon I was feeling much calmer. Then I went back to the forums. It took about 2 seconds for me to see red. This was my reply:

lol?

i know most of our healers are female. They are great and i am happy to be part of the team.
what my point was…guys are usually better.. so dont QQ or /cry over it. Guys are better at games.. ITS A FACT.dont deny it. i am not being sexist or anything, i was just compering.

i run my own business so no female mangers for me..at least like urself. cuz you either got something against me or your attitude isnt right. obviously you have lots of soft spots.. or i am just good at getting them.

on the other hand. i love females. best thing to walk the earth. i was just pointing it in a games perspective.

dont hate.. <3 instead

Reading this reply still makes me angry. I don’t want to play with this guild member anymore. Where possible I’m not going to attend any 10 mans that have him in it. During 25 mans, for the sake of the overall raid, I’ll throw him a Swiftmend to stop him dying but that is it.

And if he complains I’ll just tell him I’m a girl and one of our male healers will have to heal him, because, well he’s obviously a better gamer than I.

And every time Cass beats him on the DPS metres now I’m going to be thinking “OMG he just got beat by a girl!” Now whether or not I should point that our to the entire raid, well I haven’t decided.