HoTs and DoTs: A Restoration Druid and Shadow Priest

End of Expansion Guild Apathy

Heroic Lich King

Oh no! Shadow Trap!

From the brief time I’ve had on the Beta, I doubt that Cataclysm will be launched before mid December. Even though that’s still 2 and a half months away I very much doubt my guild will keep raiding that long. In fact I’m getting that sneaky feeling that things will wrap up probably within the month.

It’s easy for me to be worried and upset about this because I’ve just come back from a 14 week break from WoW with no raiding. Many of our raiders have been slogging it out 4 nights a week for the entire patch and entire expansion without a break. Each time we’ve gone into a guild crushing fight or brick wall, there has always been another raid instance coming out on the horizon to look forward too.

Nothing refreshes a group of raiders like new content to experience, strategies to debate and loot to theory craft. Unfortunately this time there isn’t anything until the expansion and its becoming increasingly tough getting people to show up for our Heroic Lich King attempts.

Barthilas is an incredibly competitive server with over 50 guilds working on 25 man hard modes and it’s ranked as the 4th server overall on progress. No, not Oceanic progress or even US progress. We’re talking every single Blizzard server you can possibly play on. On many servers progressing to 11/12 hard modes is considered a big deal, on Barthilas that’s nothing to write home about.

We’ve had a really tough Icecrown Citadel raid patch. Its stuff that all guilds have experienced before. And it’s the kind of thing that a lot of guilds are experiencing right now here at the end of the expansion. Some guilds hold it together. Others call it quits.

Each time our raid group gets geared and shows some good progression and unification, we seem to lose some of our geared players to other guilds, real life or burn out. Even though there are many players out there with the experience and drive to join us and keep it all going, recruitment for skilled players is fierce. There is always a guild out there ranked better than you. Guilds like mine often have to take a chance on players who haven’t got any hard mode experience (forget the gear!) to fill the loss of our best players. It’s a buyer’s market.

Gear isn’t everything. But working with the same group of 25 people day in day out, week in week out, and knowing each others strengths and weaknesses is simply priceless. No matter how good the replacement is even in shitty gear they still need most of their trial period to catch up on the lingo, rhythms and strats that your guild uses.

We’ve been pretty lackadaisical about completing Glory of the Icecrown Raider however this is the week that officers have scheduled in time to complete the last couple of achievements. I expect that at least 15 of our raiders will earn their Icebound Frostbrood Vanquishers and the cynical part of me wonders how many of those players will bother to turn up again next week. Some might: perhaps just those who haven’t completed their full 277 BiS sets. The real raiding die-hards can always be counted on (every guild has them – they simply thrive on raiding just for the social factor, challenge whatever, raiding just does it for them).

Many raiders have been burning through their DKP over the last couple of raid lock outs to finish their sets. And I can’t help but expect those players to go casual or simply stop turning up once they’ve got everything they want out of Icecrown Citadel.

The solution can’t be to just keep recruiting new players. Every single player that leaves now is leaving with a full 277 set that can’t be replaced so easily.

I’ve been back to full time raiding for a couple weeks now. When Greatcloak of the Turned Champion finally dropped I was baffled to find that I was bidding my DKP against two other healers. Surely it had dropped before? I looked back through the DKP logs to find that, yes, it had dropped several times. And each time it had gone to a player who has since either given up raiding, gquit or simply hadn’t shown up for raid.

Cass likes to count back the number of times that Dislodged Foreign Object has dropped (at least five times I think). And point to the sole raider in the group who currently has it equipped.

To make matters worse every single player that leaves muddles our raid composition. If you’re attempting Heroic Lich King with two Hunters and only one shows up (and has to leave early at that!) for the night then it’s very difficult to adjust and see any progress.

Why do players give up and stop raiding now? Perhaps the end of an expansion is a good time to reevaluate your RL vs WoW priorities, yes. But I think at its heart there are two big problems: loss of meaning and the do-hardmodes-really-count? dilemma.

If you’ve only seen the first four bosses in Icecrown Citadel I can see how killing just one or two more bosses could help you see something new, something awesome. Something epic. But if you’ve seen all the bosses in Icecrown Citadel and experienced all the small changes to mechanics that come with hard modes is there really anything new or thrilling to experience?

And what does it matter if you really finish Icecrown Citadel anyway? We already know newer, bigger stories and challenges are waiting for us in Cataclysm. If you want to save Azeroth and be a hero do you really need to kill the Lich King again? How about Illidan? I don’t think so.

So how do you incentify and keep your geared players motivated? I wanted to write this post and offer a whole bunch of solutions and suggestions.

But I have none.

Do you remove a raid night to try and curb burn out and guild expectations? Or do you come down harsh and really penalise people who don’t turn up?

Do you remove the pressure and call off guild raids? And if you do that are you simply admitting defeat? Because surely those who still want to raid will go looking for other guilds now. Which means you have to start from scratch when the new expansion launches.

I don’t think there is a magic solution to this out there, but if you know it please feel free to share it with the rest of us!

52 Responses to “End of Expansion Guild Apathy”

  1. KeevaNo Gravatar says

    I tried everything.

    Begging
    Pleading
    Challenging
    Competition
    Bribery (with gold)
    Yelling
    Screaming
    Cajoling

    Honestly, it’s just inevitable. I don’t give myself ulcers over it anymore. Penalising doesn’t work, pleading doesn’t work, bribery doesn’t work.. if people truly don’t want to turn up anymore, they just won’t.. so it’s either fill the holes, or give up trying to push the team uphill.

    Yeah, it feels like defeat.. but I’ve said it many times now – I’d rather keep my friends than have things end in fights and burnt bridges.. If it means throwing in the towel, then that’s sad and it’s a crappy call to have to make, but this time – the guild didn’t disband.
    Keeva’s last post: Super quickie- Cata glyphs observations

    • LathereNo Gravatar says

      It’s just so sad to see, your right though in the end it is a game and there is no point continuing an uphill battle trying to enforce people to turn up every night :(

  2. JenNo Gravatar says

    No magic solutions… I’m in the same boat as you (on a smaller scale). We got our 10-man wyrms last week. We’re going to do 2 achievements this week to get the wyrm for the last of our core raiders. Then… I don’t know. go for Lich King heroic? I somewhat doubt we can do it (we’re not 10 strict, but we only pug one 25-man each week, so no 277 gear for us). Is it worth working on LK for 2 months? Won’t we get bored and frustrated and angry? I love the social atmosphere in my guild and I don’t want it to get ruined.

    So far we’ve put up a poll and a forum post asking people what they want. Most want to try LK heroic so I guess that’s where we’ll go. Though I hope we try Halion heroic too, because I’m sick of all the ice.
    Jen’s last post: Meet Binky

    • LathereNo Gravatar says

      I think that’s the good thing about 10s in this type of scenario, you really can put a poll out there and get a general consensus on what the vibe is for everyone. It’s a all for one, one for all type journey which you don’t get so much in the 25 man space, where a small group of officers define the guild aim and when to call it quits.

      I hope things go ok for you though and successive wiping on LK doesn’t wreck the good social atmosphere!

      • JenNo Gravatar says

        That’s one of the reasons I (and my friends) left our previous 25-man guild. It felt like the officers had a certain idea about the guild and they didn’t bother checking if the guild wanted that too. Now, with 7-12 “core” people (7 of us were there from the start, the rest are more casual raiders), it’s much easier to get a feel of the atmosphere. We can even talk on Vent without making it sound like a monkey cage! :P
        Jen’s last post: Meet Binky

  3. janeNo Gravatar says

    At least you’re seeing more of the game than I am.

    It’s one thing to see through the end of all the hard modes, it’s another to have a guild where all the good players left after downing LK on 10 man normal so everyone remaining wipes on Lootship, we’re only getting to 8/12 ICC 25 normal with half the raid pugged from Trade, and no amount of throwing 264 gear at people improves their DPS above 4k. Yes, 4k. I do among the best DPS on 10 and 25s usually, and that means RL congratulating me for hitting 14k DPS on Festergut 25 with the next highest DPS having done a whole percentage less overall damage. Those people that had 264 gear thrown at them have better gearscores than me. (5918 addon GS. How do I know that? Well, I haven’t gotten a single mainspec upgrade from any raid for months now because everyone left doesn’t know what to do on these fights.)

    Raid leader is an idiot (my friend also in this guild loves to call him a hick…) who won’t use GDKP or any type of loot council or any DKP to make loot distribution better and possibly more tempting than before, and lately switched to “one need infinite greed” on nearly every raid. Which is awesome when there are people in the guild working on sanctified T10 for their offspec (!) when people like me are still stuck with only one sanctified for mainspec and would like an upgrade to our gear, especially for showing up on time for all the raids and doing whatever the guild/raid needed most. It is also awesome when I’m asked to use my offspec (I’m a kitty/tree, in that order) because we’re short on heals, but my heal set is cobbled together from the leftovers nobody wanted and people that have awful attendance took the gear I wanted (like, oh…Trauma…). Because my tree is offspec. Even when I’m being asked to heal at least one fight every raid at the minimum. My healing gear takes lower priority than gearing up a jerk that never shows up for raids. Cool.

    I haven’t even started on the stupidity of some of the people in this guild (think dying to Every Single Blistering Cold on Sindragosa, and having to waste a brez on them Every Single Time). Before it seems like I’m the only bitter one, all the good players pretty much left because of the same things, and anyone left that doesn’t suck is definitely considering it…on top of the end of expansion/summer blues.

    So you’ve got a problem that’s really just burnout. I’ve got stupid people on top of drama on top of burnout. I’d trade with you in a heartbeat. :/

    • LathereNo Gravatar says

      That sounds terrible – I don’t understand why you stayed and didn’t find a guild that actually well runs as a guild!

      With good WOL parses and 14k sounds pretty good to me I would think you could still experience some of the hard modes before the end of expansion and perhaps find a better home for Cataclysm?

    • JenNo Gravatar says

      Leaveleaveleave. Judging by your GS you probably have good enough gear to find a decent guild. Maybe you won’t kill the LK on 25 but at least you’ll have some fun!
      Jen’s last post: Meet Binky

    • RedbeardNo Gravatar says

      Listen to the raiders.

      Leave.

      Hell, even this non-raider will tell you to leave if you feel you can’t get a fair shake. All of the other players that you seem to have liked left, so why stick around? It’s one thing if the guild has a social atmosphere to offer you, but it sounds like the only thing keeping you together was raiding. Have you discussed leaving with your friend?
      Redbeard’s last post: Finding a place to call home

    • AloixNo Gravatar says

      OMG I empathize. On a smaller scale, and it’s a bit distant for me as I basically stopped raiding abt a month ago (not my choice, the fail-ish guild I was in re-formed and I wasn’t included in the re-form because I can’t hold my tongue well enough..), but yeah.
      I look all around and see ‘burnout’ and pre-Cata yadda-ya, and all I’ve had for a few months in ICC was frustration and feeling like I really was not maxing my potential at all. So, primarily frustration (which can bring some drama unfortunately).
      I’d give my left breast to just be burned out on HMs. FFS.
      Best of luck to you!

      • LathereNo Gravatar says

        We have actually done this for a number of players that had a good attitude on their application but were clearly lacking gear/experience wise. The only problem with this is that is enough people leave who are geared and experienced it’s really hard to keep up DPS wise on the hard mode encounters. I think I said this on another comment, but when i went on leave we had a 15% buff and I’ve come back with a 30% buff and there has been virtually no improvement at all :(

  4. AceralNo Gravatar says

    Hey,

    I am also from Barthilas, and am the GL of a small H10-man focused guild. We were in a similar situation, with 11/12 H 10 man down, we didn’t really have the steam left (with only 2 raid nights a wk) to take down H LK. So last week we called it, for our last raid night we went into Tempest Keep and ashes of Allah dropped. We were stoked so we decided that was the right note to end it all on.

    As we are a small guild, based around a group of RL friends I expect that we will all be back together in Cata. It can be good for the health of the guild to have a bit of a break, but obviously for you guys that will mean losing some people. No easy answers really, just as you say.

    Goodluck.

    • LathereNo Gravatar says

      What a wonderful way to end your WOTLK raiding! I hope the break does your guild some good and you come together nice and strong for Cataclysm!

  5. Jayson! - IllisisNo Gravatar says

    It’s interesting to sit back and raid week in and week out with both you and Cass and watch us go through…what..3-4 other holy paladins? countless DPS and see largely the entire face of our raid and/or guild change.

    And now that we finally have a brand new holy pally to raid with I’m betting its the start of the repetitive process.

    And don’t get me wrong, being the Number #1 DKP holder in and fully decked in my 277′s is pretty sweet. But to watch Cassy(mainly) fight for just one piece of gear just hurts me :(

    So I ask myself, Do I think I have EARNED my DKP because I have stayed and raided with the guild and watched other people struggle to gear when I have Breezed my way through ICC hm’s?
    Well it’s complicated. I have earned my dkp fairly through flawless attendance and what not, but i got >75% of my gear for minimum.

    I’m not sure what drives me to raid four nights per week, maybe its just the company of quite a few good people including both yourself and Cassy <3

    Jayson – Illisis

    • LathereNo Gravatar says

      Some people raid because they love the social environment + the content, challenge and new experiences.

      Other people raid because they love the competition, gear, content and challenge.

      Sadly when the 2nd group of people have got all their gear and the content is now farmable its really hard to keep these types of people motivated. I have nothing against this – often these can be some of the best players you’ll meet, but it is hard/sad to see these guys drift off as the expansion comes to a close.

  6. ZahraahNo Gravatar says

    We are going through the same phase with just h lk 25 and heroic ruby to kill and we are a long way off both and I don’t think we have the steam to keep going and I think there has to be something to aim for to keep the guild together – if not content as the aim then a project the guild works on together – or maybe just to maintain a home fir them to come back to for cata
    Zahraah’s last post: One week without wow

    • LathereNo Gravatar says

      So many guilds are in that boat, I guess I should be glad that we didn’t hit it 2 months ago and have 4 – 5 months of heroic lich king!

  7. MasithNo Gravatar says

    This is a problem im wrestling with atm. I’m an officer in a guild that cleared 11/12HM ICC25 in the middle of may now almost 4 months on we are still stuck on LK HM.

    Thing is as a guild we have started to play worse. We killed most bosses with the 10% buff, I think sindra and putri were killed with the 15% buff. Now 4 months on with a 30% buff and loads more 277 loot we still wipe on farm bosses every week. While we have replaced a few players we are mostly the same players who cleared ICC back in May. It’s as if people are turning up because they feel they have to but have stopped putting any effort in.

    It’s coming to the point were I might have to say to people either you step up your game and play like I know you can or we are going to stop wasting our time and stop raiding till cataclysm. The whole thing makes me sad as back in May I actually believed we would kill LK HM before Cata now im pretty certain we won’t.

    • LathereNo Gravatar says

      I completely understand where your coming from with the buff going up, gear going up and performance going down! I left when there was a 15% buff and I swear I’ve come back to a 30% buff and they aren’t doing the fights any better, if anything its even sloppier. I will cross my fingers for you that things stay together and you get down that last Hard Mode!

  8. RedbeardNo Gravatar says

    Interesting post, Lath.

    So you’re thinking they’ve got a couple of months needed to hammer out the details? I may yet get closer to getting that dual Loremaster than I thought….

    How’s the morning sickness? Is it finally over?
    Redbeard’s last post: Finding a place to call home

    • LathereNo Gravatar says

      Lets just say my druid was bugged out in a portal for over a week, and then when I finally got back in I went to fly there manually (wasn’t risking that portal again!) and then when I got on the dragon I got a WoW error and my entire Beta file was corrupted.

      While the druid was bugged I did do a level in Mt Hyjal as a discipline priest and it wasn’t too bad, but some of the quests bugged out and I couldn’t complete them. The guild systems at this stage were also all buggy and the experience bar didn’t work, also heaps of different features weren’t even available at that stage to try out.

      I believe some more has been added now, but I just don’t see how they could fix all of the issues for a November launch, in all honesty I think that they will be pushing for a December launch however I’m sure that this is non negotiable with Activision and it will be launched regardless.

      The morning sickness is not over! Very sad :( 21 weeks and still throwing up every day /sigh. I apparently didn’t complain to the doctor enough at the beginning because I’ve only now been given a stupidly expensive drug I can take that will fix it up for me. Apparently if morning sickness lasts as long as mine has, my stomach is actually quite sensitive to estrogen and that’s what is causing me to keep throwing up. At least I’ll know all this for any subsequent pregnancies and I can make sure I’ve got stuff to take straight away when it gets bad! And I’m having a little girl :) She’s already very very active so I’m sure she will be a handful next year!

      • RedbeardNo Gravatar says

        Sorry to hear about the morning sickness, but yay on the little girl! We’ve got three kids: girl – boy – girl, and let me tell you they’re wonderful to have around.

        (Well, when they’re not arguing, that is.)

        And yes, it’s also nice to have little geeks running around. I taught the younger two the Fantasy Flight boardgame Runebound today, and we’d have finished if we hadn’t run out of time.

        I guess you’ll need to get a onesie with an Alliance insignia on it for her to wear, I suppose….
        Redbeard’s last post: Finding a place to call home

  9. Such is the cycle of raiding and expansions… But rest assured that after this trough will come another peak. What you’re experiencing is what almost every other guild out there is too. Either hang in there, or just let everyone have their hiatus until Cata hits. No real easy answer for this one…
    Dr. Cynicism’s last post: This about sums up the weekend thus far

    • LathereNo Gravatar says

      It is a cycle, and apparently one this guild went through at the end of BC (I was in a different guild back then). I hope things will stay together there are some lovely people in the guild!

  10. Steve MNo Gravatar says

    Gotta say, I left WoW for EVE Online months ago and haven’t really looked back. It’s a completely different experience, with different struggles, but I’m able to control my schedule more. The repeated scripted PVE instances in WoW seem like the biggest problem to me. I love and hate them, but know it turns many people into gear/experience addicts who burn out over and over again.

    Not sure how Blizzard can fix that, it’s kind of the nature of a level/gear based game :(

    • LathereNo Gravatar says

      My brother ironically went and did the same thing a few months ago… I think his ship was stolen for something like the 3rd time on EVE about a week ago because he’s all of a sudden reappeared into WoW again :P The PVE instances have been particularly bad/difficult this expansion because instead of brand new content they introduced Hard Modes. And lets be honest a Hard Mode is just the same fight with a few different mechanics, it’s very hard to keep people entertained.

  11. Umbrax (Icecrown)No Gravatar says

    Just curious; WHERE did you find the statistic that rated your server as fourth of all servers relative to raiding/etc.?

  12. BeruthielNo Gravatar says

    We are still raiding – but we’ve cut it back some. We are still discussing looking at HM LK, but the general consensus is largely that it’s not worth it. We are somewhat halfheartedly toying with heroic Halion, but I’m not entirely certain how hard to push it.

    Right now we are trying to place our focus more on doing things that generate “fun”. Alt runs? You bet. 310 mounts for alts? Let’s do it! Largely at this stage in the expansion our goal is member retention and continuing to remind people *why* they want to log in a few times each week to hang out with us.

    We are doing pretty well with it so far…but it certainly still isn’t without challenges.

    End of expansions are always so damn tricky…good luck to you guys! :)
    Beruthiel’s last post: Granny Smith’s Shattrath Surprise

    • LathereNo Gravatar says

      I could be wrong but from reading your blog I get the impression that the majority of your team stick together through thick and thin and the turnover isn’t too bad. I think that alt runs and things work quite well in that scenario and if I felt that our guys were in that kind of long term relationship would definitely be something I would be suggesting as well.

      Our team seriously has pretty much completely changed in the 14 weeks I was away. My healing team that had stuck together for so long and worked so well was completely different, it was actually quite sad to come back and see all the changes even if it is good to meet and play with new people. I just don’t think the players have been around long enough for that type of guild loyalty. I could be wrong but I would expect quite a few to leave if we stopped raiding completely.

  13. AloixNo Gravatar says

    This may not be at all specifically helpful, but..
    From a different perspective .. it seems that there are a lot of guilds in a similar spot.
    *IF* they happen to choose to keep raiding through this expansion (and possibly have an idea of what they’re doing in Cata, guild/structure-wise), and are suffering from a lack of raiders, perhaps it’s a good time to expand/loosen up the recruitment a bit.
    I suspect that there *are* talented, eager, and (relatively) geared players out there who are actually interested in raiding still, they may just lack some experience.
    Or perhaps may not be the ideal class, that’s obviously more guild-specific.
    Anyway, perhaps it was an obvious point, but nonetheless.. I doubt I’m the only person on the other side of the end of expansion conundrum.

    • AloixNo Gravatar says

      A follow-up/addendum/’thinking out loud’…
      In a roundabout way I’m advocating that guilds be a bit more flexible than usual right now (not necessarily in a standard-lowering sense but more of a ‘outside the box, there may be some talent lurking’ sense).. and that does go both ways.
      My main is a Ret pally (*ahem*) and very few guilds seem to be actively recruiting them (at least where I’m looking.
      My ‘side spec’ (I prefer that concept to off-spec, as I do my best to keep somewhat relatively up to knowledge/gear/etc on my 2nd spec) is Holy, and those seem to be a bit more in demand.
      So, there’s the ‘general idea’ that in tough times like these, the flexibility may need to go in both directions.
      I have no idea AT ALL how guild(s) would feel about recruiting a player who was filling one role for now but was pretty adamant about preferring a different one for the long run.
      Anyway.. like I said, just thinking out loud, as it’s quite topical for me right now ;)

      • CassandriNo Gravatar says

        Unfortunately Ret Paladins are everywhere. And there’s really no more than room for two of them in a 25 man raid. I’m not sure if it’s as simple as saying that Holy is not fun and Ret is but, yes, good Holy Paladins are near impossible to find.

        However in the long run I believe that you should recruit for people’s off/side specs. You want your raiders to be playing the spec that they most enjoy. Otherwise they just burn out sooner rather than later.

        If you really want to raid as a Ret Paladin you have your best chance of getting in a good guild now (simply because so many are quitting the game right now). But you’re going to need to look at a heck of a lot of guilds across a lot of different servers before you find a guild that needs, and values, you.

      • LathereNo Gravatar says

        This is the perfect time to apply :) Most guilds will expect people to be swapping roles/mains in Cataclysm. You apply as Holy now with a guild a few notches up to what your used to, prove yourself and then when Cataclysm launches BAM you tell them that you are changing to Ret MS. I wouldn’t suggest telling them now because it puts the idea in their heads before you’ve even had a chance :P but even with the recruits we’re picking up now I have no expectation that those classes are what they will be playing in a few months time.

  14. XeppeNo Gravatar says

    I would love to be giving LK on hard mode a serious bash, and after a bit of downtime, realise that I’ll always regret not trying for it. But there just aren’t anymore guilds on my server that want to work towards it, and moving across to a new server and a completely unknown crew when guilds are folding and deciding to throttle back left, right and centre, seems unwise.
    So it’s onwards with alts and fun runs, hoping that ppl get energised for new challenges when Cata arrives.
    Xeppe’s last post: A Team of Heroes

    • AloixNo Gravatar says

      Yeah Xep, I’ve been following/lurking on your blog and seeing your guild struggles.
      Your solution makes sense, and your attitude is admirable! :)

      In my situation a transfer feels like the best solution, as my current server is, I believe, in the bottom 10 or so progression-wise, and lower pop.

      I feel like I need to take the risk and hope it pays off.

    • CassandriNo Gravatar says

      Will you teach me to Disc Priest LK Xeppe? So far I’ve had to be Disc for all our wipes *ahem* attempts.

    • LathereNo Gravatar says

      I agree, its probably only worth moving to a new guild at this stage if your certain they are going to stay stable in the new expansion and your looking at the long term view. This isn’t the case for some, people who don’t really care if they like/dislike their guildies, or they are just desperate to see the content and get some gear before Cata arrives are in a great position currently especially if they can write a decent app. Sadly we’ve discovered in the last week that many people who have all of a sudden decided they want to get some HM loot can’t even be bothered to see that we have an application template to follow >.<

  15. VokNo Gravatar says

    I think it’s definitely easier to keep a 10s group together for a couple of reasons. 10s is much more inclusive, so if you feel part of the team, you’re more likely to raid just for the sake of raiding. Since getting our ICC 10 drakes, we’ve cleared normal ICC on alts, gone to Ulduar a couple of time, even done a Maly/Naxx run, just because we like raiding together.

    The other reason I think it is easier is that most 10s only raid twice a week. It’s not such a major part of your life, or such a demanding mistress., and frees you up to do other things within guild or without.

    That being said, I think it’s more than just raid groups. I think we’ve got about 30% of our guild playing at the moment and I’d expect that to drop more with LotRO going free-to-play
    Vok’s last post: Outland redux

    • LathereNo Gravatar says

      I think you forget that some 25 man guilds actually do like each other :) I know it seems strange but it really is true! You guys are also flexible and allow alts to come into mains runs and things like that, which personally I’m quite against (but that’s a whole different blog post :P ) and I don’t think it could work in a 25 man environment in any case. If raiding was called for our 25 mans people would still do 10 mans and we wouldn’t lose everyone but, we would lose some and that alone is enough to be sad about.

  16. Dyre42No Gravatar says

    I’m seeing the same thing that Vox is in my guild when it comes to activity. However the problem seems to be widespread enough that when we have to pug someone more often than not they end up joining our guild because we’re still actively raiding (and are a friendly bunch). Not sure if that approach will work for your guild though.

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  21. logtarNo Gravatar says

    I’m not hardcore, we are just happy that we have downed the LK on 10 and have done 4 hard modes… but I do think that some of what has worked to keep casuals interested might help you.

    Incentives work very well, either extra DKP or gold can do wonders to motivate people to show up.

    Holding raid lockouts over if the right group is there to do the latest content and then giving days off after some hard work.

    I would also use a carrot, do not do the mount run until you are done with a big objective… you will lose plenty of people after that mount run from what you are describing your current status is.

    When is all said and done you really need to just sit down and make a list of who is a true member, and who is a (greener pastures) type of person. Its tough, but going into Cata you want to have dependable people to make up your 10s or 25 groups.
    logtar’s last post: Second Group of Kingslayers

  22. ClickityclopNo Gravatar says

    “Cass likes to count back the number of times that Dislodged Foreign Object has dropped (at least five times I think). And point to the sole raider in the group who currently has it equipped.”

    That’s really a shame :( . Part of the reason I’m still so high on the dkp list after leaving is because I never spent much dkp before I stopped playing. I could tell that I was feeling burnout, and I didn’t want to take the gear when I knew that I’d probably have to leave, not to mention that what I wanted most never dropped for me anyway.

    I still wish I could play. I’m hoping that next year, if I’m not working anymore I could be back in the game. Haha, not looking forward to re-earning all that dkp thouigh!

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