from past experience 99% of the time, 2nd raid always end up badly. i would just call the raid and form 10man grp or make a 25man grp with pugs.

Also, at the point when the icc10 vote was put through, it didn’t look like we would do 25s at all, so I opted to vote for bed. Somehow I ended up invited to heal the 2nd icc10 group that night. Did I personally want to go spend another few hours in icc? No, not really, I don’t particularly enjoy healing (except on dreamwalker !) but since I liked the people who asked me to go along, I went anyway. Would I have done the same if it was togc? Most likely.

MAYBE, just maybe, one of the reasons why I went to raid with that group is because I’m certain that when they asked me to heal, I was genuinely allowed a choice . I would not have been called ‘selfish’ if I had said no. You catch more bees with honey, and to the group that raged – insults are really counter productive to your cause.

I recently joined a new guild, together with most of my old guild, since we were not really getting raids off the ground. Fortunately, I stick to 25mans with my raiding community, so my 10mans I can do with this guild.

Since then I actually got quite some things done – even some classic raids – because people still want to complete these older raids or Naxx and up achievements.

If you are willing to do it, you can always check who in your guild still wants TotGC and Ulduar done (Astral Walker titles are hawt) and perhaps pick a day in the weekends or such together to get it done. You could put an advertisement on your realm forum detailing you want to schedule such a thing, and see who turns up.

I think you’d see many alts from progressive raiding guilds willing to get these achievements and gear on their alts (and have the experience for it) meaning less gear would be disenchanted (since you don’t need it) and you might be surprised at how many people show up.
.-= Natarumah’s last blog: Party at the Ruby Sanctum =-.

At least 25 man Ulduar or 25 man ToGC would have allowed the entire raid to participate.

We’ll definitely have to agreed to disagree on this one

Of course guild mentality plays into it as well. The focus of your guild will play heavily into the decisions made by others. I have to say that given the same choice, I would have been someone voting for my 10-man continuation. Heck, even when I got my Val’anyr I still focusing more on 10-mans, it was a guild push to make it happen.

It’s also not the 10m team’s “own time” if the scheduled raid was ICC and that was completed. At that point, if it’s put to a vote, your leadership is saying that they are no longer directing the raid and it’s a free for all. The guild should have a policy in place stating that if this type of thing happens then they will go and work on say – ToGC for some BiS trinkets.

So we’ll have to agree to disagree on this one. Shots at BiS gear or important upgrades – yes, if it’s during scheduled raid time then all the ‘core’ raiders and starters should be participating. Titles/Mounts/Achievements – no, you’re on your own for getting those done.
.-= Adgamorix’s last blog: I saw this coming – AVR slated for death row =-.

The reason why I asked about what they think about the changes for Cataclysm is that the big ol’ fight you had doesn’t bode well for the future either. Guilds have broken up over lesser things, and it takes good guild leadership to keep things going.
.-= Redbeard’s last blog: Tanks and Tanks Once More =-.

I asked for ppl to just vote yes if they wanted to do it, not necessarily if it was their top item on the list (e.g. people could vote for multiple options)

13 out of 25 was the highest out of any vote (They all ranged from around 10-13)

The 10 man vote was “10 mans or nothing”, so some of the voters for 10mans were actually just voting to goto bed early etc (Many of our raiders have family they might want to spend time with, or work early the next day)

The vote for ToGC25 was only for trinket farming. As I knew the response which Anub would get (Some players have sworn to never ever go there again lol).

Over half of the 10man team who were voting, voted yes to at least 1 of the 25man raids.

We used to always run 2x 10man groups, I don’t specifically know why the second one stopped running, as it was regularly running (I think) and then stopped a little after I got back from overseas (Even though I did try to not use the players who were going to it in my 10man)

Not sure what they think of the 10 and 25 man changes for Cataclysm. The players in the 10 man that I’ve spoken to are like me: not worried about gear, very worried about what the format change will mean for the guild.

I’m sure they do think I’m being selfish for asking them to give their time for obsolete mounts and titles.

The difference is that I need their help to get those 25 man mounts and titles. They don’t need my help/time to do their 10 man stuff. But they do need my help to do the 25 man stuff they want to do in the future.