Comments on: Learning the Wrong Lesson

By: Marler

Marler — Sun, 17 Jan 2010 14:13:49 +0000

=) As a tank I love this artice. I’m just a prot pally, and the class I have most aggro conflicts with is a shadow priest. Just typically like every other tank, if a DPS pulls and it was not ordered by me, that means he tanks. But if I’m pulling, it means I will have to do everything in order to save that DPS’ life. Losing a mob means I need to use all my cooldowns during the run, BoP the DPS’er, taunt, taunt, occasional yelling to my computer etc etc, but I will save that person’s life.

I know priests rely on dps’ing multiple targets with high aggro, but that just means I have to change my rotations.

By: Tal

Tal — Fri, 15 Jan 2010 16:42:13 +0000

I run as a warrior tank as my main. If that tank couldn’t keep ahead of a geared Shadow Priest on just two mobs it was his fault you pulled aggro. I regularly run heroics with two warlocks and a shadow priest. I RARELY have trouble with the DoTs pulling a mob off me.

You were fine.
Tal
Shalandrax on Stormrage
.-= Tal’s last blog … Upcoming Changes =-.

By: Cassandri

Cassandri — Thu, 14 Jan 2010 06:16:44 +0000

@Gitaroo It was the timing of his taunts that made me feel like he was intentionally letting me take one hit (feeling the pain) before saving me from death. I pull a lot of DPS and threat in Pit of Saron – the tanks are just the right gear level for the instance and I’m a fair bit past it. So it’s not uncommon to find myself with a tank struggling to hold threat off me. So I can’t make any assumptions about the skill of his tanking.

My DoTs minus my two direct casts is very close to the full power of my damage and TPS (threat per second) of my single target DPS.

By: Gitaroo

Gitaroo — Wed, 13 Jan 2010 17:55:26 +0000

It doesn’t sound like he was trying to teach you a lesson, it just sounds like he’s a bad tank. Unless the packs are > 5 mobs then keeping aggro on everything is usually pretty straight forward and a dot or two on the non-nuke targets shouldn’t even come close too pulling aggro.

By: Thisius

Thisius — Tue, 12 Jan 2010 05:55:36 +0000

I’ve read your blog for a good long time and this is the first time I’ve ever commented on a post. Great article as always.

My main is a lock and I’ve been vote kicked once. They weren’t forthcoming as to why but I can only assume it was for pulling threat.

Now there where things I could have been doing to not pull threat as much, but I do feel bad for all warlocks out there who have to dps and worry about threat.

I think there are lessons here for everyone in the lfg tool. DPS watch your aggro, and warriors make sure to put vigilance on shadow priests or warlocks!

By: SlikRX/Balthazario

SlikRX/Balthazario — Mon, 11 Jan 2010 20:22:21 +0000

I will say that as I get better geared, the heroics are kind of nudging me into bad habits. I get a bit of aggro? Big deal, I have 21k health and a boatload of armor. Unless it’s a boss or miniboss, I can pretty much survive anything.

UNLESS, it’s the new (ICC) content, or a lesser geared tank, THEN I sometimes take a dirt nap or two.

I honestly do NOT try to get aggro, and i *do* take active steps to minimize it: I use Hand of slavation and I stop attacking. (the only 2 tools I know of -yes, there’s another bubble I can use, but that’s an “OH SHIT!”, not an aggro dump, IMHO)

For the most part, tanks and healers have not made any issue out of it. Mainly, I assume, BECAUSE I do try to mitigate. (HoS and stopping attacking work, but they are piss poor aggro dumps) I make sure to thank the healer (if they are healing me) and the tank for putting up with me. Usually I get the “np, good DPS makes this run that much faster” and that’s the end of it.

As much as I bitch about the LFG/LFD tool, honestly most runs are uneventful.
.-= SlikRX/Balthazario’s last blog … Reflections of… the Way Halls Could Be =-.

By: Rades

Rades — Mon, 11 Jan 2010 17:03:04 +0000

As a resto druid, I find this ironic. Sometimes I want to let a DPS members know that I’m not pleased with them pulling threat constantly (aka, let them die)…and then I toss a Wild Growth to top up the tank & melee, and it heals the entire party, defeating my intent and making me grumble.

In regards to your situation though, if I saw a DPS actively taking their threat prevention steps (feign death, invis/ice block, fade, etc) that is more than enough to keep them out of my no-heals list. If they’re trying to be responsible, I’ll gladly keep them alive.

Also, I don’t even know if I’ve ever ran with a shadow priest, but I had no idea how they operate. Now if I group with one in the future I’ll be more forgiving of aggro issues.

By: Cokes

Cokes — Mon, 11 Jan 2010 16:40:16 +0000

Aww Casandri, it does sound as if you’re truly and honestly trying not to pull threat, and for that I applaud you. I can tell you that from where I’m tanking, too often have I found players who don’t give a rat’s ass about their threat and expect the tank to keep aggro no matter what. I must admit that I have, on multiple occasions, refused to taunt a mob that a dps has pulled aggro on(off?) just to “teach them a lesson”.

Assuming your tank did not use marking, I would have one suggestion though. Especially on AOE packs, I would assist another dps and not the tank if you want to focus fire down a target. Melee is usually a good choice since they don’t benefit as much from switching targets. I know not all tanks tank the same way, and some may even argue that what I’m about to say is not a good idea, but when I tank AOE packs on my warrior, I switch targets like crazy. I try to spread my threat out between the mobs evenly because I’m expecting the dps to AOE and not focus fire. If I realize they are focusing on one target, I can usually taunt of pretty quick.

But its really hard if you focus down one target till you pull aggro, then switch to another and pull aggro on that one. If you pull aggro, don’t switch targets please!

By: Guinnyn

Guinnyn — Mon, 11 Jan 2010 16:40:01 +0000

Cassandri, I play mostly as healer, and I really tend to watch who’s pulling aggro (thanks to vuhdo and its red arrows of “IT WAS HIM, I SWEAR!”. ^_^). At the start of any run, I notice who’s pulling aggro often or not. I like to give a warning of “Hey, man, you’re pulling too much aggro, slow down…”. If I get a good answer, even if the dps still fails at not pullilng, I just smile and keep doing what I do best. But I’ve got also nasty answers. To those (and the ones who just don’t answer and keep humping the damage meters), I just *shrug* on party chat, and ignore his health frame for the rest of the run. Usually it takes a couple of pulls and near-deaths for them to realize that they got the healer pissed – and that’s NEVER a good thing to do.

Besides, I’ve read this creed somewhere, and it makes so much sense I take it to heart (not to the letter, mind you ^_^):
“If the tank dies, it’s the healer’s fault;
if the healer dies, it’s the tank fault;
if the dps die, IT’S THEIR OWN DAMN FAULT!”

I try my best to keep everyone alive and goin, because I too want a fast, clean run anywhere I get into. But if the DPS play stupid, I let them die. If they complain, I just “*shrug* You pulled aggro. You should know better.” and go on. Never got kicked of a group because of that. Nor, thanks heavens, got complaints from any tanks I got with.

And I still think that DPS Meter humpers deverve to go to that special hell reserved for child molesters and people who talk during movies.

By: Natarumah

Natarumah — Mon, 11 Jan 2010 13:17:11 +0000

I also have noticed a large increase in threat – largely due to our DPS scaling much better with haste now. I get more tank warnings too than before, and Hand of Salvations on critical fights.

Very soon itemization will be so good for us we need to spec into a combined 54%+ threat reduction again, just to pull it off.

I am actually looking forward to that! *evil grin*
.-= Natarumah’s last blog … Goodies for shades – ICC10 =-.