HoTs and DoTs: A Restoration Druid and Shadow Priest

15 Things You Should Know About
the Dungeon Finder

See Rules #4 and (unofficial) #16

See Rules #6, #7 and (unofficial) #16

Guess which feature of 3.3 had me the most excited? Not Icecrown Citadel (a gated raid instance launched at the start of the holiday season?), not hasted Devouring Plague and Vampiric Touch. The new cross-battlegroup Dungeon Finder matching system.

Since yesterday I’ve been queuing them pretty much non stop. Some on my Shaman, because my Priest was swallowed whole by the glitchy new dungeons in Icecrown for hours on end and couldn’t be retrieved.

I don’t know if I really have any conclusions about the system just yet. But I do think it’s like going from an organised Battleground premade into well, the normal bg queue. Lessons learned so far:

  1. Anonymity makes me act like a jerk (usually I hide how impatient I am)
  2. Even though you get ported to the instance you’ll spend more time waiting for your teammates than you should have to
  3. If you queue as a hybrid say goodbye to DPSing cause it’s never gonna happen
  4. Participants probably won’t meet entry level heroic requirements in gear
  5. Participants won’t meet entry level common sense requirements either, forget about skill
  6. The less said by your party members, the better the run will be
  7. Groups are either terrible, or fantastic (see image above), there is no middle ground
  8. You will end up in the one or two dungeons that you goddamn hate
  9. The Party Leader will be forced to confess mid way that they actually know nothing about the instance
  10. Each person’s role is branded into their portrait (and into VuhDo, I should add) so you’ll know what’s what when you arrive
  11. Not all Heroics are equally difficult
  12. If you’re an Enchanter be prepared to create Shards and Crystals against your will
  13. You can only win gear of the highest armor type that you can equip
  14. You can’t trade with party members from another server so don’t get caught without water!
  15. Replacing a lost party member is a breeze, even if you are half way through
  16. (Unofficial rule) All tanks are Paladins

*Update* I can’t believe I didn’t think to include these:

17. One DPS will always be a Death Knight

18. Your group will be diverse. Two Mages in 1 party? Highly unlikely. My Priest has never been grouped with a Shadow priest. And the one time I refused to check “Healer” the healer picked wasn’t a Priest either. My Shaman healer has never been grouped with an Ele or Enhance Shaman.

When I used to form a heroic group, the old fashioned way, I used to go about it in one of two ways. Sign myself up as a healer and scout out a tank (preferably from a guild of good reputation) or talk a guild tank/healer duo into coming with me. I didn’t care if DPS in the party did 2k. I didn’t care if they’d never done that instance before. I didn’t much care if the tank wasn’t in 25 man raiding gear. I thought I was pretty open minded.

The new Dungeon Finder is a heck of a lot more random than that. And perhaps it’s just because everyone wants to try out the new system but even I was dismayed by the two extremes: excellent group, or dismal group. I thought that in a group of 5 you’d get a nice cross-section of the different gear and skill levels of all players ready for heroics. Instead what I found was that a lot of people who wouldn’t be invited to a heroic showed up anyway.

Xata – The Nexus

Let me explain my very first experience. Cassandri was AWOL – she didn’t even have a location on the login screen – after we ran into some pretty heavy duty bugs in our first ICC Heroic (not sure which one, the one on the left of the Summoning Stone maybe) so I logged into Xata. Now Xata hasn’t gotten a new piece of gear since the day that Ulduar was released. And she’s got quite a few rares still equipped. And I’m pretty rusty. I waited about 2 minutes before being prompted that I had been assigned to heal a dungeon.

I hit the confirmation button… Culling of Stratholm loading screen. We arrive and I’m a bit concerned that the Paladin tank has the same health as the DPS warrior, but I let it go. Just as we finished the 5 crates quest I was prompted to join the queue and choose my role. Again. And Again. After doing this about 5 times our whole group is ported to the Nexus.

Good, The Nexus, easy way to start. The run goes ok, but the leader seems to be very lost. We do the bosses in the wrong order. The Warlock in the party seems incapable of avoiding cleave and whirlwind damage. But they leave and are replaced by a Hunter. And when we requeued to replace that missing member it was so convenient to just wait for them to run to us. Nobody had to summon. Nobody had to explain that we were 2 bosses in already.

But I didn’t have any water on me (I’ve been ruthless about her bag space in preparation for a server transfer) and nobody could give me any. That sucked. I probably could have ported out of the dungeon to buy some and just port straight back in. But at the time it was just easier to heal less, and huddle closer to my Mana Spring Totem.

The real problem with the group was that the overall DPS was just awful. No, it’s not okay that you only do 900 DPS (I thought Death Knights were meant to be easy?). It’s even worse when the other 2 DPS are doing 1.5k.

The Hunter’s pet caused havok as we shortcutted by jumping off the platform on the way to Anomalus – any qualified “Party Leader” should have seen that problem before it happened but as I typed “dimiss pet!” it was too late. At least I stuck around to keep him alive while we fought the pack – the rest of the group were long gone.

Oh yeah, thank god for Frost Resistance Totem. When you have terrible DPS Keristrasza takes a really really long time to die. And even with all the changes to MP5 I just don’t have the mana pool to go on all that long.

Cassandri – The Oculus

I was able to retrieve Cassandri after my Nexus run and wound up in, you guessed it, a half completed Oculus.

“What drake do you need me to take?”

Ended up with a long argument between the party members. The party leader ended up saying:

“I think we lost a DPS drake”

Not a good sign. Confidence, please! Let me get this cleared up:

“Do you have 2 Emerald? It’s much easier to complete with 2″

“Take whatever.”

Sigh. Another leader who has no idea what they want their party to actually do. I take an Emerald drake. We 4 man the Arcane Nova-y boss because someone’s friend had to AFK and because it’s someone’s friend the rest of us can’t vote and succeed at kicking him from the group. The fifth member of the group shows up as we get to Ley-Guardian Eregos.

Ok, for any readers who just aren’t really sure of this fight or this place, but is determined to get the Party Leader reward anyway, this is basic, basic strategy to win:

  • 1 player takes a Ruby (red/tanking) Drake. Ruby drakes are the only drake that can AOE kill the Whelps – and Whelps will spawn pretty damn quick
  • 2 players take an Amber (orange/dps) Drake. Amber drakes have the Time Stop ability which stuns the boss + whelps on command. 2 Amber drakes can alternate to freeze the boss when he enrages periodically throughout the fight.
  • 2 players take an Emerald (green/healing) Drake. Emerald drakes leech life off the boss back to themselves, but can also funnel their health into another party member, healing them up. Because the Emerald player will lose a lot of life healing others, then need to swap back to hitting the boss to regain life, it’s really easy to alternate between 2 Emerald drakes so the healing is more constant.

I’ve done nearly all the Heroic achievements in Oculus which means we experimented with all kinds of weird setups, including none of one type of drake (actually if you’re playing with friends 5 Amber is incredibly successful – but you need to precisely time your Time Stops in succession). The combination above is the winner for a PuG. Trust me.

Anyway we die horribly to Whelp overload. Oh right. Nobody took a Ruby drake.

“Is there a reason we don’t have a Ruby drake?” I ask.

We return, this time with the combination I described above, and killed him nice and quick. You see, it doesn’t matter how much they nerf Oculus, people will still suck at it because either:

  • (a) They don’t know what they’re doing, but won’t confess
  • (b) They can’t coordinate
  • (c) Nobody is assertive enough to tell them what to do

At least I only came in half way I suppose. I wonder if their previous healer really did “disconnect” or if it was a rage quit.

Cassandri – Gundrak

This time around the random dungeon was Gundrak. Which I actually like, as an instance. The party was silent. The tank and DPS were all reasonably well geared and without much ado got right down to chain pulling and doing their jobs.

The snake wrap boss was first, and was surprising difficult to heal (I don’t quite understand how you’re meant to deal with the snake wraps, but I don’t remember it being as difficult as it was). The rest of the run went on practically without a hitch! A lot of poison, such is absolutely awful as a healer I can tell you, but I was paired with a knowledgable Ele Shaman and Paladin tank this time who covered some of the cleansing.

Then for no apparently reason I was struck with a pretty damn awful bout of lag at Eck. I hate saying it, but I felt I had to explain:

“I’m lagging really bad, can we just wait a few minutes?”

I guess the tank was as skeptical of players citing lag as an excuse as much as I am because he replied with:

“You heal pretty convincingly for someone who has lag”

“Flash Heal spam. Thank god it worked”

We make our way to the last boss. Every time I enter combat my screen freezes. Then speeds to catch up. Then I’m stuck casting a spell for 10 seconds. I just spam my buttons (my cooldowns keep ticking, how weird is that?) hoping that they’ll get through. I suspect that the reason we survived the last boss was a combination of the Shaman’s Chain Heals and the tank’s Hand of Protection when I was impaled.

But they were very nice about it. Actually the entire run restored my faith in PuGs everywhere and this new system.

Xata – Trial of the Champion

Before returning to another round of punishment I actually successfully used the Dungeon Finder to find a Heroic group for Halls of Reflection (by choosing a Specific Dungeon). Unfortunately half way through the first boss we all disconnected and Cassandri went AWOL again and couldn’t be retrieved.

Back to Xata. I couldn’t be more dissapointed than seeing the Argent Tournament Colosseum loading screen flash up. I hate this place. I hate this instance. I actually dislike it even more than Oculus. Jousting sucks. And it’s really hard to heal. Remember how I said Xata didn’t have very good gear? Well I don’t think she was quite ready for Trial of the Champion. I prepared for the inevitable wipe and prepared to desert my first heroic of the day.

Surprisingly, I’m grouped with a pretty decent group of players. That’s the only way we got through it. I healed my little heart out, but I’ve never taken the Shaman to ToC5 before. My DBM (I just got the latest version for ICC and it has warnings for ToC5 apparently!) is screaming at me to Dispel Renew and Dispel this and Run Away. I’m practically talking to my computer:

“Hello? I’m here as a Shaman, not a Priest? I don’t have Dispel Magic

So I ignore the warnings and go back to non-stop healing trying to keep the party alive. Then during the Paletress trash pulls it all goes haywire. One DPS dies really quickly and suddenly we have 2 groups of mobs and monks, not just 1. Then all the mobs are on me. I’m running towards the tank, but it’s too late, I die. I watch for a few seconds and the tank seems to have them again, so I used Reincarnation and was able (just! no mana) to get through all the mobs without offically wiping.

To make matters worse, I get blamed (politely) for the wipe:

“You’re meant to dispel that btw Xata”

I felt like yelling “What are you talking about?! I’m NOT PLAYING MY PRIEST” but I held back the urge, the group had been nice so far, and start thinking instead.

“Was I meant to drop Tremor Totem? Does that work?”


I don’t even remember there being a Fear. Or a Mind Control (I think that’s actually what happened, but I can’t be sure). But fortunately it didn’t happen again. I dropped Tremor Totem for the rest of the trash just in case. I also didn’t point out that as a Paladin the tank could have helped too.

The actual boss fight wasn’t too bad and once I got used to ignoring Deadly Boss Mods’s announcements to *Dispel Renew* we got through it with no deaths. Chain Heal, I love you. In hindsight, I’m sure I’m meant to substitute the DBM terminology of Dispel for Purge, but I just totally forgot about Purge. DBM is overrated.

The DPS was great so killing the Black Knight wasn’t as bad as I expected it would be. And I Chain Healed my way through without too much pain. I was so happy that we got through it when the first item (and a major upgrade for me), a spellpower piece, dropped that I dearly wanted. Trouble was, it was cloth.

“Ok if I take those cloth boots?”

By then everyone, including the Mage, had chosen Disenchant about the same time I discovered that I couldn’t actually hit the “Need” option – it was disabled. So the boots got sharded. What a waste. At least I know I can heal that instance on my Shaman now.

Cassandri – Halls of Lightning

Not much to say about this one. I was grouped with a fantastic over geared group of players (who said nothing of course) and a tank that knew how to keep a good pace, and push the group to take on as many mobs as we could comfortably handle. I spent the second half of the run on the phone and even paying half attention to what was going on my screen we breezed through the place.

I actually forgot about this run altogether until I spotted a screen capture on my desktop (above).

Cassandri – Draktharon Keep

Draktharon Keep has to be one of the easiest Heroics in the game. Well it should be. Not for this group. This was the only Heroic that I deserted during the entire day. That’s how bad it was.

The Party Leader, a warlock, confesses immediately “actually I’ve never been here before” and passes Leader to the tank. We start pulling.

And I watch in awe as:

  • (a) the DPS pulls agro from the tank
  • (b) the tank doesn’t attempt to retrieve the mobs running rampant and tanks 1 target
  • (c) everyone, except me, stands still in the black voids

“Don’t stand in the black holes, pls” I type, thinking perhaps they just don’t know the 1st rule of PVE play.

No improvement. It’s actually really hard to keep healing my way to the first boss. I have to Fade constantly because I keep pulling threat. The Mage and kitty Druid are each tanking a mob. I’m actually grateful that I don’t have Recount set up, because I suspect that they DPS is very very slow. Just before the first boss the tank says he has to AFK “for a while” because his daughter is crying.

Now, I’m sympathetic, but in the space of time that it’s taken us to start, buff and clear to the first boss, 15 – 20 minutes, I’d have expected us to have finished the entire instance. At the rate we’re going I’m never going to leave this place. I start to wonder how mean it would be to leave when there’s a baby crying somewhere out there. The other party members are making “you’re such a good father” comments in party chat so I definitely can’t vote to kick him and hope to win support.

He’s back within 10 minutes and we kill the first boss. Up the stairs into the first spider pull. I shield the tank before the pull. He pulls a spider or 3, I shield the Mage when they pull threat and get attacked by a spider… a couple spiders run off into the corner and spawn more… I get aggro on 6 spiders. I’m doing more tanking that the goddamn tank! For shielding twice! The spiders eventually wear me down, perhaps I should have hit Pain Suppression, but I just didn’t see the point. The tank didn’t pick them off me that’s for sure. He was happily chasing one that ran off into the dark. We wipe.

I run back and zone in and call it quits:

“I’m sorry but I think this run is going to take more time than I have tonight. Good luck you’ll get a new healer soon enough” and ported out of the dungeon and left party before I saw a response.

I hate being the fussy group member who drops the party after the very first wipe. But honestly, if you can’t tank, don’t say that you can when you’re asked to define your role. If it had been a group from Barthilas I think I would have been nicer. Or I would have tried to help more, but I just didn’t think this group was going to succeed no matter what I said. They weren’t ready for Heroics, they should have been honing their craft in Normals first where losing threat on all but 1 mob in a pack isn’t going to kill the healer.

Back for More

So I had some good groups, and some bad ones, and nothing in between. When I play Cassandri I’m scared to be queued for one of the new Heroics because I know that I’ll be chosen to Heal. And the new Heroics aren’t a walk in the park, especially not at this time while everyone stumbles through unsure of the best strategy to minimise damage.

Xata is even worse – there’s just no way her gear is good enough (Naxx, Tier 7 isn’t the base standard anymore) to do the new Heroics as DPS or as Restoration.

But I’m still going to queue the Random Heroic. I just hope that I get lucky: good group and good instance.

135 Responses to “15 Things You Should Know About
the Dungeon Finder”

  1. DaranadorNo Gravatar says

    Actually, when using the LFG as a hybrid, you can unclick the “heal” or “tank” role and just queue as DPS. It may take you a bit longer, but you’ll load up as DPS. I did it today on my shammy (who is, admittedly primarily resto) because sometimes I just want to smack things as Enhancement.

    Good luck in the future!

  2. TamNo Gravatar says

    God, I’m terrified now…. it sounds like a spontaneously-generate-a-failpug device – although, actually, I see you had some really decent runs, it’s just they tend to get horribly overshadowed by the calamitous ones.
    .-= Tam’s last blog … less morals more pewpew =-.

  3. CassandriNo Gravatar says

    @Dranador You’re absolutely right I could have unchecked the “Heal” option. Except I have dual spec and I do enjoy healing (it’s my primary spec for the Shaman) just occasionally, occasionally I’d like to DPS. It’s especially bad when I’m grouped up with other hybrids who do terrible DPS… makes my fingers itch.

    I’m sure there will be times when I just give up and uncheck that box. But every minute that I sit around I’ll be thinking “why am I making my future group sit around waiting for someone else to heal?”.

    Plus, I’m a Priest. Even before this new system was released I was expected to heal.

  4. I haven’t had any truly calamatous pugs with the new LFG. The worst was a gundrak that I tried to tank when my latency spiked up to 17k ms, it was like watching a run via slide show. Aside from that, I ran into a few wipes when the new five mans came up, but nothing cringe worthy.
    .-= The Renaissance Man’s last blog … Patch 3.3: The Agony and the Ecstasy =-.

  5. MarceloNo Gravatar says

    About your h toc run:

    You can purge the renews Paletress cast. I never never see that happening, but it helps a lot on weak dps groups.

    I don’t think paladins can cleanse the mind control channeling. But what the tank could have done (and that’s what i do) is to save the hammer of justice cd for that episode. I never trust other people to ‘save’ on that, and most wipes happen ’cause i hammer’ed too early and *the tank* got MC’ed (prolly what happened to you).

    That tank MC in HTOC is the most evil thing in a heroic ever. Unless you avoid it, it almost always results in all healers and caster dps getting 2 shotted, ’cause there’s no time to recover.

  6. CassandriNo Gravatar says

    @Marcelo Yes, I think it was the tank being MCed. I completely forgot about Purge, it’s just not an ability that I remember to use. And it doesn’t help that the DBM terminology specifically uses the word “dispel” – scrambles my Priest brains.

    In general I find that it always falls to the healer in the group to cleanse, dispel or whatever. Why? Sure they might have talents to improve their ability but when I’m DPSing it’s a heck of a lot easier for me to dispel/purge something off my DPS target than it is for a healer to do.

    Distracting healers by making them cleanse/purge or whatever isn’t always the best. It’s just easier for lazy DPS. Consider two examples: Lord Jaraxxus and Iron Council (Fusion Punch). Both better handled when the tank self cleanses (Fushion Punch) and the DPS dispel/purge (Lord J).

    So if he was MCed there’s nothing he could do. But I hate that the blame for not removing some random nasty thing falls to the healer by default.

  7. NalNo Gravatar says

    Nice writeup. And i do agree – It is as expected – pugging without being able to look at what you get. As i was only able to do one, i’d say i had about 80% luck. 80%, cos
    - there was one player who was known to be a twit (and is on the “don’t group with this one” list of the Guild)
    - we actually started within 20 minutes of the first complete group
    - we didn’t wipe (i was healer, and managed to keep the tank alive at all times – though to a significant degree due to the tanks skill/gear)
    - It actually took one player (your guess who) 10 minutes (and several questions of “were are you guys”) to enter the instance.

    Still, i find this overall to be a preferable experience for a lfg tool. It was less wait than usual, and i do intend to see how it goes for specific dungeons (older ones) when leveling alts or doing achievements.

  8. CassandriNo Gravatar says

    @Nal It definitely widens the pool of available players. But I believe the way to success is to form as much of the group as you can from players that you know are good, then jump in and find just 1 more for a Specific Dungeon.

    Today I healed some of the new Heroics on Cassandri (which is a real confidence boost) and my friends and I just couldn’t get a tank from Barthilas. We ended up pugging 2 across the battlegroup. Both in Ulduar-ToC gear I imagine (35k-42k health or so) that were quite competent. Gosh knows how long we’d have been waiting for a suitable tank on Barthilas. In the LFG system we waited perhaps 15 minutes.

    And yeah, I’m mad keen to try this when I’m leveling my Mage. I love Scarlet Monastery – but the run there is a nightmare!

  9. JaediaNo Gravatar says

    I had 4 groups yesterday.

    1: DK tank, Druid healer, CoT. Awesome group.
    2: Warrior tank, something healer.., Pinnacle. Awesome group.
    3: Pala tank, shaman healer?, HoL. Awesome group.
    4: Warrior, druid, Oculus. Decent group.

    Did I just get lucky? Or did everybody else get very unlucky? Either way, lovely feature!
    .-= Jaedia’s last blog … Zod’s Repeating Longbow =-.

  10. CokesNo Gravatar says

    I’ve had mostly good groups. Like you said, the best ones have been the ones where people spoke the less.

    I’ve run about 5-6 random heroics so far, and in only one instance did I find someone who had gear which was say less than ulduar 10. And that one person was a doozy. Queued in as a healer and had a mix of +hit gear, healer gear, blues and greens. And what healer gear he did have, was enchanted with melee enchants. We just voted him off and continued.

  11. Wei WangNo Gravatar says

    Regarding the MC on the Paletress trash (again):

    When I heal this on my shaman I always set the priestess in the pack to focus so I can Wind Shear the mind control before it completes the cast. Even if it does manage to complete the cast, wind shearing the channel will break it.

  12. A question or 2 from a kinda-n00b ret-pal:

    Will repentance interrupt in ToC?

    And I’m not sure why, but cleanse only seems work when it wants to. Disease? Pretty much always.(I seem to recall once or twice it wouldn’t) Poison? Mostly (not always) Magic? Only on shadow DoTs.

    As for my timid steps in to the random PUG-a-Thon? I only ran one, and it was Utgarde Pinnacle (I had neve been there) It was a pretty successful run, but the feral druid we had, had ALL GREENS. Not a single blue (let alone purple) item. (I didn’t notice until I was reviewing things this morning) I think his gear score was about 400. That being said, the guy did remarkably well.

    So my PuG score is a 100% positive one…
    .-= SlikRX/Balthazario’s last blog … Hey, Dirt? Hello, it’s Me… Balthazario =-.

  13. CassandriNo Gravatar says

    @SlikRX I’m not entirely sure how Cleanse works, but if you clean say Poison, perhaps yes you’re removing what’s there, but it’s reapplied straight away. Some classes (I think Druids might have the best one) that can remove stuff AND keep that target free of whatever for several seconds afterward.

    Oh yeah and remember even though it’s an instant spell, be sure to wait until you actual have a cooldown up to cast it :) I’ve been known to spam my Dispel button too soon, and not when my spells are actually ready.

    And yes, you should be able to interrupt casters if you can Repentance them.

    Glad to hear your runs are going so well :)

  14. CassandriNo Gravatar says

    @Wei Wang What’s the advantage of using Wind Sear over Earth Shock? Or will either do?

  15. KassiNo Gravatar says

    Earth Shock was redesigned so that it no longer interrupts :)

    Wind Shear is the shaman interrupt now and it’s off the GCD and also doesn’t share a cooldown with your shock spells. It also lowers your threat so you don’t have to worry about making something cross with you. Fantastic, in other words ;)

  16. CassandriNo Gravatar says

    OMG I actually read the Earth Shock tool-tip today. I’m so behind!

  17. eadipusNo Gravatar says

    I’ve had a lot of luck with it including my favourite who was a warrior pulling 4.5k dps with 26k health. He kept pulling aggro off me but hey, our healer kept us both up and it went insanely fast.

    A guy in my guild managed to do 18 heroics by the time I’d gone to bed, got nearly 100 emblems in a DAY!

  18. JeffNo Gravatar says

    “You can’t trade with party members from another server so don’t get caught without water!”

    Are you sure about that? I could have sworn that a mage was trading conjured water yesterday. They even had a great discussion about how you could since it’s conjured–blah blah blah. I tuned them out, but that was the gist of it.

  19. GingaNo Gravatar says

    I realise this won’t help most people, since most classes can’t change your role..

    Be a tank:
    A good tank, even with a slightly below average healer can carry a group. Sure it’ll be slower and more painful, but as a tank once you significantly overgear a place, it’s relatively easy to carry through people that can only do 12-1500 dps. Not necessarily fun, but less frustrating that endless wipes, and some of the experiences described above.

    Of course it goes both ways…. a Poor tank will cause endless pain, so if your going to be a tank, put in the effort to learn the fights.

  20. MagnettNo Gravatar says

    After reading the whole post, I assume you’re Disc. Don’t be scared to queue for the new heroics; they’re not nearly as much of a pain to heal as ToC was when it came out (Paladins also had trouble healing ToC, not sure how they do in these). The first part of Halls of Reflection might give you some trouble, but only because it’s so ridiculously annoying to tank that eventually mobs will run loose and attack the DPS. There’s no one to blame there, other than the keyboard turning Mage that can’t Ice Block. Other than that, the AoE damage is so minimal in pretty much all the fights that you should have no trouble healing it.

    As for the Shaman, I’m fairly sure you can handle healing them on normal.

  21. CassandriNo Gravatar says

    @Jeff Are you absolutely sure they weren’t also on your server? Perhaps food conjured in the actual run is exempt from that rule. But Honeymint Tea and the like cannot be traded. That run that I needed water for didn’t have a Mage handy unfortunately.

  22. XionNo Gravatar says

    @Jeff: You can trade conjured items across realms. It basically works identical to cross-realm BGs.

  23. imhanNo Gravatar says

    I really thought the tool did gear matching? When I pug with my healer – ulduar gear, I get top notch groups. When I pug with my tank – new 80, but good for heroics – I get similar people?

  24. ArkkangelNo Gravatar says

    Something my guildies and I have noticed about the new system is that it will try (as best as possible) to average out the teams ability. So if you queue with your top gear on (2800+ GS) you tend to get stuck with some lower geared players. We suspected this so to test the theory we all put our old T6 gear on and queued up (separately) and were all placed with very well geared players. We then changed gear back of course and blazed through the instances. Try it out and see if it works for you. I think there’s a cutoff on GS though because queuing up naked doesn’t seem to work.
    .-= Arkkangel’s last blog … Sorry about the gap in posting =-.

  25. CassandriNo Gravatar says

    @arkkangel I wonder if that’s only true of the healer/tank pair. I’ve noticed that Xata (my undergeared Shaman) is more likely to be healing 45k tanks, Cassandri (my 245/258 Priest) gets tanks that are more like 25-35k although there have been exceptions both time for each character.

    As for DPS… well gear is absolutely NO indication of skill. So perhaps if it’s matching 3 damage dealers with a good balance of geared, average gear and low gear you can still definitely end up with awful DPS output.

  26. PuffYNo Gravatar says

    4. Participants probably won’t meet entry level heroic requirements in gear
    16. (Unofficial rule) All tanks are Paladins

    Lies! I went with a grp on release day that all had gear over lvl 219 and knew how to play. Also the tank was a warrior :P

  27. DarushNo Gravatar says

    I didn’t see this mentioned, so I’ll point it out. If you’re pugging and find a good group, you can finish the instance, requeue with the *same* group, and still get the LFG reward. I chained four instances yesterday (HoR, which went well, and convinced me to continue; followed by HoS, UP and finally ToC).

    I was the leader. After each final boss, I asked the tank and the healer whether they want to continue. They did, I requeued. Had a blast.

  28. CassandriNo Gravatar says

    @Puffy In 3 days of heroics. 1 Warrior tank. 1. I once got a Death Knight as tank too. The rest? All paladins! And someone on came up with another rule that I forgot:

    17. One DPS will always be a Death Knight

    _________ This is the comment I posted at as readers debated this topic ________

    I play a very well geared Priest on my server. I think a lot of us folks (ShiftTank’s comment above really struck me as similar to my own experiences) that are in that position are being matched with entry level gear players. To ensure that, as a whole, the group succeeds.

    But you have to also understand that we are used to knowing the community on our server and finding (most especially as a Tank or Healer) additional well skilled players for our final spots. Which means for the last 5-6 months we’ve become used to completing Nexus and such in 15 minutes. For us, these new “find me 4 others please” runs are a real step back. And it’s quite frustrating, even when you’re trying to help.

    The key to success, if you’re in that position too, is to gather as many people as you can on your own server and pug just the last spot that you can’t seem to fill. I did this today and overall the runs were just much smoother and definitely faster.

    Of course, when I queue my Tier 7 Resto Shaman alt to run heroics, this works in my favour. So the 2nd option, if you’re very geared and are getting frustrated, is to use it to benefit your alts too. Then you won’t mind so much when you end up in a slow run.

  29. GromaNo Gravatar says

    You mention leader rewards. I can’t find any indication that these went live. Does anyone know for sure?

  30. rulezNo Gravatar says

    Points 1, 6 and 18 are spot on but overall my experience seem to be the exact opposite of yours, or maybe I wrongly interpret it as overly negative ;) .

  31. RoguepwnagNo Gravatar says

    I think it really depends on the battlegroup you’re in. A friend I have is in another battlegroup and every last one of their pug’s through lfg works. All of mine have been awesome, pretty much everyone has had 3k+ dps. Also, although it is lame, I’ve kicked healers or tanks that are undergeared (I ask the other people in group too). Well it could just be that I do 6k dps on trash when needed and trick of the trade on the tanks that don’t know how to re-taunt…

  32. KarhosNo Gravatar says

    Anyone know why we can’t roll on gear of lower armor type? I am a boomkin and lots of cloth gear is BiS for us. I ran some of the new heroics with geared groups and those items went to de instead. What is the logic behind it?


  33. RoguepwnagNo Gravatar says


    It’s to prevent ppl ninja’ing everything.

  34. KarhosNo Gravatar says


    Thx for your answer, but ninja’ing is kinda part of the game. There will always be some. Im not sure they will reach their goal by doing so and limiting us to roll on our highest armor level items only. I hope Blizz find a better way to solve this.

  35. LivanaNo Gravatar says

    So far, I haven’t had much trouble with healing. *knocks on wood*

    I’ve found on my disc priest (2300ish GS) that for the most part I can carry bad pugs with a whole lot of spam, shielding, fear and a pinch of sunshine (angry sunshine). Even managed to get through H ToC with 3 new 80 dps and a decently geared pally tank that argued with me that he wasn’t casting holy shield “because its gone so fast anyway.”

    The rub for me so far has purely been Halls of Reflection. No matter how I try to spam, CC and have people hide in corners to LoS ranged, if the dps isn’t really good, that Arthas chase will be an abysmal failure, and its driving me batty, because I’ve been stuck in there 7 times since the patch.

    Overall though, I’m loving the new system, and all of the dps DKs queued as tanks that it brings! :D

  36. CorrNo Gravatar says

    “12. If you’re an Enchanter be prepared to create Shards and Crystals against your will”

    I absolutely love, love, love that there’s an option to “greed to DE.” Before, I always had to grab the loot, DE at the end, do a roll off (and wait for that one person who ‘always’ went afk right after a run and didn’t roll yet), and then distribute (and wait for the other person who went afk after the roll, but before the distribution). Now, everybody ends up with shards/crystals and I never have to touch a single piece of loot. Woot!

  37. SigniusNo Gravatar says

    My friend has absolutely loved the new LFG tool, but I’m kinda cautious on it at this moment in time. I went Prot (Paladin, imagine that!) after I hit 80 and have since ran Naxx and a few heroics, but not very many. I absolutely loathe WoW-Heroes, but using that as a base my paladin sits at 1999 gear score, which I’m slowly upgrading over time. Now, I could really use the Badges to help with those upgrades, but I’m terrified of tanking in the group because I will be expected to know the heroics.

    I can look up boss abilities on WoWhead in the pre-pull time and see quick strats, but for the most part I’m lost. I’m sure part of this is the usual newbie-starting Tank issue, but do you have any suggestions for what a tank who’s never been there before should do?

  38. CynwiseNo Gravatar says

    I ran DTK in 13 minutes today with a crazy tank. It was the most insane heroic I think I’ve ever done; pulling the spiders into Novos’ room, dragging King Dred up the stairs… we went through the entire middle section without one of our DPSers because we couldn’t keep up with the tank and healer. Fortunately, as you said, DTK is really not all that hard.

    Also: warlocks can do 950 DPS in an evening dress. If you’re doing less than that, something is wrong.
    .-= Cynwise’s last blog … The Queue =-.

  39. matatanNo Gravatar says

    I’m totally enthusiast towards the new LFG mechanics. My arms warrior has a chance to group fast and easy. In fact i ran 11 heroics on a single day :)

    PS. OMG i love this site! Gzz to the awesome sisters for making up this very beautiful blog. I would love to know how you did the footer. I love the way the heads overleap the main content page.
    .-= matatan’s last blog … Matatan al contrattacco! =-.

  40. CassandriNo Gravatar says

    To all the comments from people saying how great the new system is, I do agree, but the article is a bit negative because I wrote it just after that awful awful DTK run that I describe at the end.

    I’m sorry, but for overall my groups/runs have been much worse than PuGs I joined previously from Barthilas alone. For me that’s true. I’m glad that others are having positive experiences.

    A note on the Disenchanting: if I could disable this option I would. I don’t offer to DE in instances. It’s a service that I offer to guild runs, or, when we were allowed to trade BoP items, for PuGs when I liked the players. Also as someone who tries to earn gold by selling DE mats on AH… I can’t help but see this as a new way to drive down demand for materials from items that would have been vendored previously.

    When I herb in an instance I don’t share that with other players present. And it’s a heck of a lot easier to go out and farm herbs in Storm Peaks etc. Instances are the place where enchanters farm their mats.

  41. KurnNo Gravatar says

    “I also didn’t point out that as a Paladin the tank could have helped too.”

    Well, that’s a good thing. Paladins can only use Cleanse defensively — that’s to say, to remove Poison, Disease or Magic from friendly units. DBM probably won’t yell at you to dispell something if you don’t have the boss targetted (from what I’ve noticed — I raid as a holy paladin and don’t get all these instructions to dispell/interrupt, but when I pug on my hunter, I do get those warnings).

    As someone who has used the LFG system on a moderately-geared survival hunter, a very well-geared holy pally (with a moderately good tank set) and an undergeared resto shammy, I have to say that I’ve had a ton more good groups than bad groups. I’m on Proudmoore, so I think we’re both on Bloodlust as a battlegroup. This isn’t to say that I haven’t had some really fail pugs — when the warrior tank is out-DPSing a warlock or we hit enrage at the end of Halls of Reflection, both are pretty fail groups — but I’ve had some AMAZING runs. I got “Don’t Look Up” in a pug, for example. ( )

    Ultimately, time of day will probably make a difference. Don’t queue when most people in your timezone are raiding, perhaps — I’ve had the better groups during off-hours, but not during the day, more like after raids. And now that the new instances have been out for a few days, most well-geared people have gotten what they need from the instance (Emblems of Frost from the quest), so I expect the quality of pugs to drop substantially after the first week or so, once people pick up those two or so items that are an upgrade. (Example: my holy paladin got a ring from the end of HoR and never needs to return, at least not for holy gear.)

    That said, I totally agree about the paladins tanking (so many of them!) and the fact that DKs are everywhere.

  42. TTFKNo Gravatar says

    I have run the random group on my 80 Shammy, 80 Bear… and my 61 Rogue.

    While the rewards for non-max dungeons aren’t great (Got a pair of SP gloves out of a Helpful Satchel after a Ramps run), groups seem to get together pretty quickly, at least in Outlands. Even as DPS I never waited more than 10 minutes. So far it has taken me to Ramps twice… and Slave Pens once, which surprisingly was little trouble.

    It is also a great way to finish up those group quests sitting around.

  43. were those any negative things that happened that you didn’t list? lawl, i mean come on, why did you feel the need to dictate every experience you have? i can’t remember have the screwed up pulls if i really wanted to so you must have been taking notes in the other monitor. hehe .. seriously though, it’s not that bad. theres a bad apple in every bunch and you’re going to find them… BUT THERE IS GOOD NEWS . .. . . you may find that dream group that makes you wish they would all pack up and come join your guild. I’ve had some FANTASTIC groups with INCREDIBLE synergy and its really one of those things you just have to take with a grain of salt. i have dropped a couple groups becuase of rudeness or some other social flaw and im very patient with people. just jump in there and have fun and enjoy the free tokes!!!!

  44. CassandriNo Gravatar says

    @Triptothane If you think I listed every single negative thing that happened to me you are so wrong.

    None of the groups I’ve been in have amazed me, although the Halls of Lightning run from the screen capture has definitely been the best so far. Have I wanted recruit anyone for my guild? Nope.

  45. MikeNo Gravatar says

    Pretty much my experience over the last three days and I’ve run about 20 heroics (including new ICC instances) in that time. Random LFG is ultimately going to cater to the bored player needing badges or the noob player who can’t get anyone to go anywhere.

    I agree with the previous comment about the quality of PUGs declining over the next few weeks. Once players get the loot/badges they need from the newer instances you’ll see a sharp decrease in quality and quantity of tanks and healers.

    It’s unfortunate that something that obviously took a lot of time and thought to develop is going to become last week’s mutton so quickly.

  46. Hound ArchonNo Gravatar says

    This may sound strange, but my experience with dungeon finder so far has been next to stellar. I just got my Perky Pug, and out of all groups I joined only two or three were less than perfect.

    Virtually every run was as smooth as it could possibly get: “Doesn’t Get To Eleven”? Check. “Don’t Look Up”? Check. Not to mention a handful of speed-related achievements from other dungeons. I swear, not a single non-premade group I picked on my own server could run instances so quickly. People rushed things like madmen, and I barely kept up with them – not healing-wise, but movement-wise.

    I admit that it probably should be attributed to early rush: every raider wants to grab a handful of Emblems of Triumph and grab those few pieces of gear he had been missing. Every tank I’ve had the honor to heal was ridiculously over-geared for lvl 80 heroics.

    The only exception to the above, and a dungeon where not a single pug I’ve been to could complete, is Halls of Reflection. But it is a step above the heroics we’ve got used to.

  47. SamNo Gravatar says

    When told to dispel renew in ToC5, you also have a spell available to your shaman called Purge. It performs the same function, but it only works offensively. Also, a paladin’s Cleanse works defensively only. As such no paladin should be able to use it on a mind-controlled ally (they become hostile).

    I’m disappointed that you have multiple level 80 characters and don’t know this, Xata. It leaves me with the impression that you don’t read what spells do as you train them or that you purchased your characters online. Refusing to grab water is silly. Ultimately you sound like one of the players that makes the dungeon finder difficult.

    I would offer an alternative two things to know about the dungeon finder:
    -Don’t be lazy.
    -Don’t be in a rush.

  48. LathereNo Gravatar says

    @Sam /sigh – Well I actually see it pretty differently. IMO it is arrogant know it all people like you who make the dungeon finder system awful.

    I know this is hard to believe but I actually leveled all my charactes to 80 and you know what there are 2 whole talent trees of abilities that I haven’t even learned yet on my main, the druid let alone along know how to use /gasp. Does this make me a terrible player? I say no. Did this mean I bought my character? Um, definitely no.

    I also know my sister, the one who wrote this article in a moment of frustration. She is also the one who sits their patiently and explains to the brand new 80s in Oculus how to use the different drake abilities and marks herself and shows them where to fly. She’s the one that will only queue as DPS if an item she wants is classified more as a caster item then a healer one, so she is being fair to the other DPS in the party. Yep we definitely don’t need people like this in PUGs…..

    And seriously…. who would honestly write a blog about a toon they bought? That is the dumbest thing I have ever heard!

    I would offer 2 alternative solutions while posting comments on blogs:
    1. If you don’t like what you read simply leave, we seriously don’t mind
    2. Don’t make offensive comments about people purchasing characters, there is no purpose behind it except to be mean, which only shows to the world your an asshat.

  49. CassandriNo Gravatar says

    @Sam It’s ok, I guess you missed the part where I realised that I could have used Purge.

    “In hindsight, I’m sure I’m meant to substitute the DBM terminology of Dispel for Purge, but I just totally forgot about Purge. DBM is overrated.”

    I have a couple of level 80 characters (Priest, Rogue and Shaman). I leveled them all. Didn’t even use Refer a Friend. Reading a tooltip for Purge at level 50, 1 year ago (when I was that level) and then becoming confused in the heat of battle does not mean I bought my characters on eBay.

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