Comments on: Raiding 10s vs 25s

By: Cassandri

Cassandri — Tue, 09 Nov 2010 07:46:16 +0000

Unless Officers and Raid Leaders are compensated in some way (I guess in ICC we’ve seen a lot of them profit from reserving and selling BoE drops) I don’t think many will want to organise 25 mans.

I’ll be interested to see how this pans out in Cataclysm that’s for sure.

By: Ikeltu

Ikeltu — Tue, 09 Nov 2010 04:03:02 +0000

I know that this is a very old post but I just happened to be reading through some of the older posts you guys have (You two rock btw!) and in the comments on this post I found something eerily prophetic from poster Tufva, “It would be interesting to see what happened if Blizz made loot the same ilevel across 10 and 25s and put them on the same raid lockout. What would people choose? Would 25s still be considered the only “real” raiding?”
Very interesting since patch 4.0.1 has dropped. I know that my personal preference is 10s because of the friendlier atmosphere and the heavier reliance on performance, losing 1 man in a 25 wont hurt a raid too much, but losing a person in a 10 puts a HUGE weight on the other raiders shoulders…with the gear being equal I think that most people will pass up the difficulty of organizing those for a much easier 10.

By: Why I Love 25s

Why I Love 25s — Fri, 23 Oct 2009 02:05:23 +0000

[...] wrote a post a while back comparing the two raiding formats available in Wrath these days: 10 mans or 25 mans. She can see [...]

By: drug

drug — Tue, 06 Oct 2009 11:34:14 +0000

I absolutely prefer 25 man raids.

Some say, size doesn’t matter, but sometimes it does. I just love seeing 24 fellow raiders on the screen casting and beating the crap out of a boss. I love being part of a healer team with an own healer channel. I love all guild and raid leaders putting so much effort in organizing the raid schedule. I also had absolutely the best times in WoW in BC 25 raids.

Nevertheless, I absolutely see the advantages of 10 man raids: Easy to organize, much more intimate, more responsibility for every single raiders, challenging hard modes which aren’t as brutal hard as many 25 man hard modes.
.-= drug’s last blog … Quo Vadis Blizzard? =-.

By: CombatWombat

CombatWombat — Fri, 02 Oct 2009 02:07:41 +0000

as a raid leader and being responsible for the raid invites i find 25′s to be a nightmare sometimes, having 30 people to fit into 25 slots oneweek, and then the next week having only 18-19 people show for raids is bloody annoying,

however the grief i get when i organise a 10man group (10s are done on a casual basis in our guild and just sort of happen when people organise them) i get 10-15 complaints of “why wasn’t i invited etc,

as to the environment when actually in there killing the bosses, 10′s feel great as you know you are not carrying anyone, but when you look at the dps meters on a 25′s fight and you see variances of 7k down to 3.5k on a fight, you start to wonder why you are bothering

By: Silva

Silva — Thu, 01 Oct 2009 14:28:24 +0000

I know you asked why we prefer 25 mans, but I just thought I would comment on why I much prefer 10 mans. I completely get that in 25 mans you have to coordinate more people, and so it is more difficult in that sense. But in 25 mans, there is so much more room for slack. In some cases, you can do a 25 man boss with only 24 or 23 people. I (also NE resto druid) can do no healing over some 25 man bosses and no one will die. In a 10 man, if one person even slightly screws up and dies, in most cases it’s a wipe.

I guess I prefer 10 mans because my success feels so much more dependent on whether I performed perfectly, and it feels like I had a much bigger part of the raids success. And you know that if you down a difficult 10 man boss, everyone did everything right as there is so much less margin for error.

And less people, high chance of getting l00tz!!! (yes i know the loot is worse)

By: Ercles

Ercles — Mon, 28 Sep 2009 01:22:03 +0000

I vastly prefer 10-mans. Why? Because of the social aspect of it. In 10-man we can easily have fun and joke around on Vent while clearing trash and stuff. Imagine the same in a 25-man. It simply wouldn’t work. I also feel a lot closer with the 10-15 people I run 10-mans with. It’s also a lot easier to keep a rather consistent line up, which helps progress. As you mentioned, you really get to know peoples strengths and weaknesses.

Although this thought might sound foreign to some, the major reason I raid (progress, beating and to some degree loot matters as well, of course) is the social aspect of it. Overcoming challenges with friends. With 5-mans being a joke and 25-mans a not so social environment, I prefer 10-mans.
.-= Ercles’s last blog … Sheeping Noobs =-.

By: Tufva

Tufva — Sat, 26 Sep 2009 00:46:49 +0000

We’re a 10-man guild that have recently dabbled a bit in 25-mans (mostly because of a random alignment of the moons so that nearly all our raiders signed up at the same time) and I must admit that personally I prefer 10-man. To me it is a more epic feeling to beat something in a small tight-knit group of adventurers than in a large, frantic group.

It would be interesting to see what happened if Blizz made loot the same ilevel across 10 and 25s and put them on the same raid lockout. What would people choose? Would 25s still be considered the only “real” raiding?
.-= Tufva’s last blog … Odd groups got left, even groups got right! =-.

By: Vok

Vok — Wed, 23 Sep 2009 13:19:48 +0000

I think it’s all about scale. 25 people banding together to defeat an Old God has a bigger feel, like something more important is happening. I think there is also an element of ego involved. Call is prestige, call is epeen, call it anything you like, there is a feeling that if you don’t raid 25-mans, you’re not a real raider.

I wouldn’t say I enjoy ten man raiding more than 25 man raiding but there are some massive bonuses. Firstly, no passangers. There are still some gear issues (almost ironed out now) with our group, but ever raider is very good at raiding. It is extremely refreshing not to have the same people making the same mistakes all the time.

The real kicker – and the only reason I really left 25 man raiding – is time. Four nights a week and it’s also very serious for 25-mans. Two nights a week, a lot of breaks and a look of messing about for 10-mans. It’s so much less like work and more like fun.

That being said, is downing Arthus going to be the same for me as it is for a 25-man raider? Will it have the same elation? I don’t know. I do know, though, that downing Shade of Aran after a few weeks of wiping back in TBC felt almost as good as Keal….
.-= Vok’s last blog … Epic Encounters – Prologue =-.

By: Norm

Norm — Wed, 23 Sep 2009 13:19:44 +0000

I’ve been thinking a lot about this lately, especially as one of my in-guild best friends has recently stepped down from raiding 25s at all. I think I enjoy 10s slightly more than 25s but only because I already raid 25s. 25s are like having a job with coworkers you love. 10s are like playing drunk kickball with your friends in the park. I love the atmosphere on vent and being able to keep track of exactly what is happening better. But 10s are only a little more facerolly *because* everyone I play with has 25 man gear. I didn’t enjoy 10s nearly as much when I wasn’t also raiding the same content on 25s.

And guilds that have set 10 man rosters end up with the same scheduling drama 25s guilds have, because they’re working from a smaller pool. I think it’s worse because losing one of 2 healers is much worse than losing one of seven. In a guild that has enough raiders to put together a 25, there’s always going to be some flexibility in how you put together 10s.